First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

The historical footage gives you a view of whitewater kayaking in the early 80's. The first descent was in the 70's by Chris Spelius and Ken Lagergren. This resulted in the arrest of Ken and the escape of Chris. For a complete pod cast of the first descent see exchile.com

First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge sentiment_very_dissatisfied 66

Kayak 18 years ago 493,607 views

The historical footage gives you a view of whitewater kayaking in the early 80's. The first descent was in the 70's by Chris Spelius and Ken Lagergren. This resulted in the arrest of Ken and the escape of Chris. For a complete pod cast of the first descent see exchile.com

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Most popular comments
for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

datapro007
datapro007 - 6 years ago
Carrie rolls at 11:36.
chesky baba
chesky baba - 6 years ago
Those boats! The helmets, PFD's ,paddles! How did they do it? And where those skirts duct taped down?
relikvija
relikvija - 6 years ago
she has bigger balls then most men I know
looseparashoot
looseparashoot - 7 years ago
White PEOPLE are pretty awesome
tubesockets120v
tubesockets120v - 7 years ago
It's the biggest she's ever seen.
Sean Baskett
Sean Baskett - 7 years ago
This is some of the greatest whitewater footage ever. I wish they could get camera crews like this into the Tsangpo gorge or the Stikine. With the right kind of lenses.
Bruce B
Bruce B - 7 years ago
Looks like you'd flush drown if you fell out.
Anton Ruso
Anton Ruso - 8 years ago
LOL @ soundeffect  @8:07
Susan Jordan
Susan Jordan - 8 years ago
Holy Holy shit.

10. comment for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

Harry Featherstone
Harry Featherstone - 8 years ago
Putting myself in a barrel and hurtling down a huge waterfall would be my idea of hell. Who in their right mind would wana do that?
Chris
Chris - 8 years ago
that background music at the start sounds just like 'new noise' by refused ha ha
Bob Sit
Bob Sit - 8 years ago
Originally from Niagara Falls, but at the time that this was filmed missed it because I was on a pleasure cruise of the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean aboard the Luxury Ocean Liner USS John F. Kennedy. Would of loved to see it,
Jordan Babcock
Jordan Babcock - 8 years ago
k, no thank you.
lw216316
lw216316 - 8 years ago
I've been there in person and the video does not capture the full experience.
Its like looking a picture of the Grand Canyon.
You have to be there in person to understand it.

I was there many years ago
and could not imagine anyone going down those rapids like that.
Jenna L.
Jenna L. - 8 years ago
So happy to see a few others comment on the sexist comments towards Carrie.
I thought she had a great run, she didn't flip, and she handled it just as well as the others Though Chris was disputably the best, I think - what a fantastic run! - I have to say Carrie was better than Don and Ken. Saying that she was 'unsure of herself' and 'fearing the size of the water' is pure sexist nonsense. As the narrator himself says, only an expert can do this! If she was afraid of big water, why the fuck would she be this good at kayaking? It takes pure guts to participate in a sport like this, and women have to be absolute bulldogs to prove themselves and gain the strength necessary since our bodies have a much harder time forming muscle and upper body strength. Go Carrie!
EverythingViral
EverythingViral - 6 years ago
She seemed to be the only one truly nervous, and even admitted as much afterwards, that's probably why he said those things. People are so ridiculous nowadays, everyone is a victim. I bet you're one of those people who thinks it's sexual assault to compliment a woman.
Chris Landry
Chris Landry - 7 years ago
its hard to make a sexist comment about a chick thats so ugly.
Rex Unkefer
Rex Unkefer - 7 years ago
This really takes me back
datapro007
datapro007 - 7 years ago
Let's not get off the "deep-end" on this. I didn't hear Bob say anything "sexist". One point, Carrie did in fact roll on video. Take a close look at 11:39.
AKillerTuna
AKillerTuna - 7 years ago
Over 30 years ago. Your outrage is hollow. Get over it.
Tony McSpadden
Tony McSpadden - 8 years ago
+Jenna L. She sure did great, but she did have to roll once. That is large water!
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 9 years ago
I too thought the comment was not legit....... C spelius
datapro007
datapro007 - 9 years ago
I'll cut Bob Beattie a break, since he is a great skier and courageous. However, saying that Carrie Ashton is "unsure of herself" and "perhaps fearing the size of the water" is preposterous. Let's see Bob make the run, then he can comment on Carrie.
Joe Palm
Joe Palm - 8 years ago
and the on-screen time of her run is far shorter than the 3 men
dillon sanford
dillon sanford - 9 years ago
sweet background music almost like a 70's porn
Chris
Chris - 8 years ago
sounds exactly like refused 'new noise'
fnog9
fnog9 - 9 years ago
its such a waste for it to be illegal to go in those rapids.
Fourth Reich 卐
Fourth Reich 卐 - 9 years ago
Red Hill Jr: "Watch this dad! Forget the Gorge, Im gonna go over the falls itself! Checkout my barrel made out of inner-tubes. Here I go..." /DEATH

20. comment for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

Darren Green
Darren Green - 9 years ago
5:24-5:43 This is the biggest she's ever seen.
TCSwizz2
TCSwizz2 - 8 years ago
Hehehehehehe
Travanta Polk
Travanta Polk - 9 years ago
They didn't have all the gates open
Jeff Poisson
Jeff Poisson - 9 years ago
Anyone know what the music is at the beginning? Sounds like Refused-New Noise.
joshua12345676
joshua12345676 - 10 years ago
This is so amazing... Props to anyone doing this
fatmanmark
fatmanmark - 10 years ago
"where the flow is unpredictable, and the surge is mysterious"hahaha best narrarator.
Timothy Stratton
Timothy Stratton - 10 years ago
Visiting Niagara Falls today. The power of the Niagara river is like nothing I've ever seen. All of this water is the same exact water that flows over the Falls themselves.

After the falls there's about a mile lull in the river, then it narrows and steepens rapidly and unexpectedly, creating these class 6 rapids. I can imagine explorers from hundreds of years ago climbing down the rock face near the falls to return to what they think may revert to a calm river only to find this beastly whitewater.
Steve DeCourier
Steve DeCourier - 10 years ago
3:25 - "A chilly whirlpool 500 feet deep".

mmmm... no.
robinrb1
robinrb1 - 10 years ago
Hey Chris, Do you still have access to the video's of the 1981 and 85 Stikine trips?
Wad9591
Wad9591 - 10 years ago
This is a good place to sight see and a very good place to hold respect. I live here and this place is treacherous beyond your wildest dreams. It is a place you respect from a distance. Too many have taken it for granted and the majority have fared miserably. Most are never found.
joeskis
joeskis - 10 years ago
I don't understand where this is.  Is it shortly after the Niagara falls or the American falls?  I know a ferry boat drives you right up to the bottom of the falls so the river can't be that wild.  
BugattiIncorporated
BugattiIncorporated - 10 years ago
Your kidding me right? How on earth could any boat make it past those rapids. The "Maid of the Mist" is the Niagara Falls tourist boat that as you said takes you close to the falls itself. I was on it a while back, but they dock somewhere between the falls and beginning of the rapids. The boats depicted in here are fairly small compared to the new ones they have now. These are some of the worst rapids out there, so yes it is as bad as it looks.
Arthur Swails
Arthur Swails - 10 years ago
Did you see the video? It is wild as fuck.

30. comment for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

Callum Jeffcock
Callum Jeffcock - 10 years ago
old school!
Allen Wilson
Allen Wilson - 10 years ago
This is a wonderful documentary of the running of the Whirlpool Rapids. I would like to say, though, that it really is mis-titled. I personally in May and June of 1972 ran five trips down said rapid. We as a group ran at least 15 trips. Granted, it was done with large Grand Canyon Type rafts, and I agree there is a huge difference between kayaking and rafting. But it should be noted that I flipped this rig straight over backwards in the big wave at the entrance to the whirlpool. This is a link of the commemorative photo taken of our first run.  I just think, as good a video as this is the facts are not correct. This is not the first legal descent of the Niagara Gorge.
https://app.box.com/s/rrf6ntntomiuhzn9vvi9
Jay
Jay - 8 years ago
That lip right at the entrance to the whirlpool gets huge. You hit that? Wow that's crazy.
shadowkitty56
shadowkitty56 - 8 years ago
I know this is old, but i have to ask, Mr Wilson: what would it take to get those rapids run below the falls run again? It is 2016. People have run rapids in the Congo River and in bigger rivers than Niagara-why the reluctance to try again? It used to be that the Gauley was considered too dangerous until somebody did it in the 1960s. Same is true of parts of the Tuolomne in CA. Could the govt. see reason and only allow those who have conquered the most challenging rivers ride the waves?
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 10 years ago
That is interesting.....I remember rafting was permitted with a raft designed by Cornell University till it fipped and few died.  I thought i heard about a Grand Canyon guide running till his raft flipped.   Did you run the rapid above Whirlpool? I would suppose you have to.   So I guess you guys were not the first either as a steam boat was run down to get it from beneath the falls down to the lake below.   So this video is misnamed. It should be the first legal descent in kayaks.  Chris
Aaron M
Aaron M - 10 years ago
seems legit
ismed kurniawan
ismed kurniawan - 10 years ago
keren man, do you like its
holydogshit2010
holydogshit2010 - 11 years ago
Fucking loved the music.
vistacruiser70s
vistacruiser70s - 11 years ago
They talk of "energy" and "sunlight off the water" like they were hippie hold overs from a bygone age. The early '80's hadn't really hit with them, they were older..
xlr8r17
xlr8r17 - 11 years ago
Also, Red Hill Jr. is one crazy bastard
xlr8r17
xlr8r17 - 11 years ago
Kayak design has come a long way .. wow
Will Conkwright
Will Conkwright - 11 years ago
:-) 11:58 Because i think you graduate in the first woman to get on the rabbits
J. Lyn
J. Lyn - 11 years ago
Yeah, the smile and laugh is typical of a person who is 'scared as fuck'. She didn't say she was happy it was over, she said she felt better now. Doesn't everyone feel better after they accomplish something awesome? If anyone was 'scared as fuck', they would never be in this sport, and would have never paddled into the Niagara Gorge. This takes guts and passion and years of dedicated training.
Bob Marley
Bob Marley - 11 years ago
every few years ? lol nonono.. not the canadian side, majority deaths.. i'd say 1/1000000 live MAYBE.. considering how many people use it for suicide after losing everything at the casino.. which is a hell of a lot more than is released to the public.
Bob Marley
Bob Marley - 11 years ago
don't be a dumb bitch, she was clearly scared as fuck. the only reason she went through with it was because she was beyond the point of return and it was very clear she realized that. Did you not watch the end interview where she showed just how scared she was, she even said how happy she was that she was done with it.
mokotramp
mokotramp - 11 years ago
What's with all the beards? Freaks!
Zach B
Zach B - 11 years ago
Cool video! Subtly dated sexism too!
David Blumberg
David Blumberg - 11 years ago
wow! great stuff! and loved the LA Rams football helmet...
Matthew Ganz
Matthew Ganz - 11 years ago
Awesome! Chris you destroyed that line. SO MUCH WATER.
hodman1957
hodman1957 - 11 years ago
Big waves but no holes!
jvidell
jvidell - 11 years ago
Pfft. Been there. Done that. Oh wait. Never mind. That was only in my dreams.
davetileguy
davetileguy - 11 years ago
We floated this on our inner-tubes one year
feiz01
feiz01 - 11 years ago
crazy footage,,, man awsome stuff, ive just started kayaking and have bought a pyranha karnali, and am desperate to learn a roll,,,, help please :) from england

50. comment for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

Kittycatpartyhat
Kittycatpartyhat - 12 years ago
I will never be this cool.
dameon pesanti
dameon pesanti - 12 years ago
huge boats and pfd's
etcrobb
etcrobb - 12 years ago
Very impressive. Crazy but impressive and congrats for surviving.
soheil fahimy
soheil fahimy - 12 years ago
Chris made it seem effortless,that is how good he is.
Walt X
Walt X - 12 years ago
Narrator: Carrie, this will be your first time Carrie: yes it will be Narrator:how's it look? Carrie: BIG! Ahahahaha
20cFilmWannabe
20cFilmWannabe - 12 years ago
Dirty minds lol
James Biederman
James Biederman - 12 years ago
I'll stick with flat water Kayaking, thankyou !!!!
bigbear 350
bigbear 350 - 7 years ago
i rather stick my canoe trip on small river not as big rapid like that .. holly shit
Ted7864
Ted7864 - 12 years ago
Big deal this is nothing. Lois Lane did the same white water run with nothing more than her own arms and a little piece of a floating log in Superman 2
dontjinxme
dontjinxme - 12 years ago
The first and only time I ever saw Kayakers was at the Natahala River. This was back in the mid-80s when the Kayaks ,as seen above, were everywhere. When I got into Kayaking around 2005, after moving to Georgia from S. Florida, those were the types I naturally looked for. The dude at the store was sorta like "Dude! What decade did you just come from."
Andrew Overby
Andrew Overby - 12 years ago
Wow that is awesome... You guys are insane in the best way! Is that a perception dancer I see? I just picked one up just like that last fall, had no idea it was this old!
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 12 years ago
120,000 cubic feet per second Carrie had bigger balls than anyone I knew at the time and she precise and elegant. That was a sexist comment without a doubt......bChris
Kaapo73
Kaapo73 - 12 years ago
@mkatlynwilliams She is brave! About that not-to-flip, check 11:37. It doesn't make a paddler worse if there is a need for the roll. Just do that!
J. Lyn
J. Lyn - 13 years ago
Carrie didn't seem 'unsure of herself' - seems like the announcer was being sexist there.... Women are not timid and helpless, especially not pro kayakers going through the fucking Niagara Gorge. Carrie has more guts than any man I know.
RWOATMAN
RWOATMAN - 13 years ago
Well let me rephrase that it looks like Chris and Carrie are paddling Dancers or some perception boats. Thanks for posting this Chris What were the other 2 boats??
RWOATMAN
RWOATMAN - 13 years ago
Lovin it, I cant believe i have not seen this footage, i miss the old glass boats,Kayaking on Sun. and gettin drunk and doin patchwork on Tue. At least thats the way it was done in the southeast U.S. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
guaranic
guaranic - 13 years ago
Imagine taking an 18 footer down that
stillrob420
stillrob420 - 13 years ago
When someone Surfs it, then ill be impressed.
Michael Harper
Michael Harper - 13 years ago
@Karrowt haha that sounds perverted lol
muskieandsalmon1
muskieandsalmon1 - 13 years ago
@CalTek cormorant largely disappeared thanks to the chemical DDT..the same one that devastated the Bald Eagle... After many years since DDT was banned, the cormorants are finally making a comeback..and then some...for some silly reason, everybody hates them...but i would argue that not having them around did more damage...every ecosystem needs predators to keep disease down..
Jim McCarthy
Jim McCarthy - 13 years ago
Thanks for posting!
FreeWillFreeRide
FreeWillFreeRide - 13 years ago
@tpstrat14 there way to get out. you should take class.
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 13 years ago
that is the entire video.
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 13 years ago
You know I always thought the same thing from the first I saw the show before it aired. Carrie was one of the best paddlers in the country male or female at the time. chris
Alswearengen15
Alswearengen15 - 13 years ago
haha! That's great! I love old school kayaking videos.
Timothy Stratton
Timothy Stratton - 13 years ago
You practice holding your breath driving in your car!?!?!? Man, that's gotta be a hopeless feeling if you're under and you can't roll yourself back up. It makes me anxious just thinking about it...
datapro007
datapro007 - 13 years ago
Hi, Chris, I love this video. I hike that section of the gorge often and am always awestruck by the thought of running it.
chunkEcheez
chunkEcheez - 13 years ago
UNREAL!
ipplepen
ipplepen - 13 years ago
Really enjoyed seeing what the old boats could do
3jcorn
3jcorn - 13 years ago
They're all paddling PIGS!!!
canmoore
canmoore - 14 years ago
@Dole111 Just you wait till the flood gates at the dam are opened...
jmr1068204
jmr1068204 - 14 years ago
How was it a "legal descent" if it resulted in the arrest of Ken and the escape of Chris? LOL
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago
Thanks for the comments. For more historical videos check out exchile.com
Jim Busse
Jim Busse - 14 years ago
nice job guys! great to see some classic footage!
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago
Hahh that was true....we hid in the woods..hid our boats in a drainage pipe, and evaded the police.
Keith Hibbard
Keith Hibbard - 14 years ago
this was back when men, real men, risked their lives to conquer nature. to try such a stunt now one would have to conquer a mountain of red tape before this mountain of water.
PotatoGunsRule
PotatoGunsRule - 14 years ago
Oh I know man. A friend bought two pairs of 205's for $25.00. He got some laughs at line up at my resort, then shredded the mountain! He was impossible for me to catch.
nick cardone
nick cardone - 14 years ago
I'd die.
Doug Grosjean
Doug Grosjean - 14 years ago
This is fantastic. I applied for a permit in the early 1990s, assuming that lobbying efforts by the AWA had been successful, and the response was ... amusing. Parks staff took my name and number, called me about 8 hours later and read 4 passages from the New York Revised Code, which described the offenses I'd be charged with if I tried such a thing. And no, they weren't handing out permits.
acrazedmaniac
acrazedmaniac - 14 years ago
i love my old..215cm skis.... the 'hot shots' of today..can not ski em, like i do.
whatnext12
whatnext12 - 14 years ago
not then...
bimota_rider
bimota_rider - 14 years ago
Hey Chris, I got your e-mail!!!! For everyone else: On Oct, 5 1977 Thomas Beaman and Robert Murray entered the river beneath the Whirlpool Bridge and shot the imfamous "Whirlpool Rapids" on truck inner tubes. We tied the tubes together with a length of rope about 12 feet apart. We wore only life jackets, hockey helmets, and swim fins. We were not tethered to the tubes in any way. We where we were arrested on a multitude of charges. We repeated this stunt in Aug. of 80 We eluded capture.
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago
oops i did not mean to remove your entry. Tell me who the guys were to run in it in a tube I would love to talk to them. Write your post again please, Chris
bimota_rider
bimota_rider - 14 years ago
oooops, the post below is incorrect. the date of our original float was Oct. 5, 1977
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago
Our first descent was in 76. The first legal descent I think was in 81. Chris
Adam Chappell
Adam Chappell - 14 years ago
that look like a easy class 4 rapid
Snomi16
Snomi16 - 15 years ago
its amazing how much kayaks have advanced in design in 25 years...those look almost terrifying to use! fair play to them tho...thats some bit of whitewater!
gcharocks
gcharocks - 15 years ago
those r the biggest waves I've ever seen
Al Bundy
Al Bundy - 15 years ago
80's tv rules
blueorangelettuce
blueorangelettuce - 15 years ago
Jesus Christ, what intensity!
pbr2424
pbr2424 - 15 years ago
I love some of the older videos of whitewater kayaking showing the Perception Dancers / Mirages. Chirs Spelius is the best because of his love for the sport. I remember doing the Kenebec in Maine @ 13000cfs. My friend peeled off down the river when we were dicussing whether we should be doing this and I had no choice but to follow. Lots of adeneline for me. It the best sport. Thanks for posting.

100. comment for First Legal Descent of the Niagara Gorge

magget16
magget16 - 15 years ago
these look more like class 5, 6 is much harsher.
racek2
racek2 - 15 years ago
Every few years someone goes over the falls and lives. It's not unheard of, just do a quick search of Buffalo news.
leadstring66
leadstring66 - 15 years ago
LOL, i lived there thirty years, never said, those are class 5 and those are class 6.....LOL i said, those will kill ya you must have been goin down, and i was goin up LOL
leadstring66
leadstring66 - 15 years ago
man you cant rip through ther on no jetski. LOL, i had a starcraft with a 350 and i could only get so far, then i just stood still with the motor full out.
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
I am not certain if I understand your comment but....for me warming up doing a full roll is a ritual of mine before a big rapid. Getting my body used to the water and going through the full range of motion before we head down the gorge. I think everyone in the group had extreme confidence in their own roll.... If you did not have confidence in ones woll .....this is not the river to paddle.
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
I have always wanted to try a jet ski...I thought I could get it through there but going upstream. Hey Ken Lagergren did swim through there when he exited his kayak back in the 70's. He survived!!!!!!!
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
Well someone did notice the fact that we taped and glued our spray skirts down. That was the big fear...what would happen if the skirt blew. We had three illegal runs before we did the filming run. chris
pagansnorider
pagansnorider - 15 years ago
awesome quote!!!
Skyler Wefer
Skyler Wefer - 15 years ago
Truly amazing. Soooo much power in there. Someday!
madmax412
madmax412 - 15 years ago
what kind of idiot wouldnt think this was sick? this is great footage man!
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
Lame? It was all I could do to keep Ken Lagergren from running the falls back then. That was in the 70's before you were born and when long boats were the norm. He had his line figured out and only way I stopped him was by telling him if he went for it I was not going to film it. He called me a weeenie. He said a 10 year old boy went over it in a life jacket without a scratch. Quote from Lagergren "You can not let anything: job, work girl friends get in the way of one and the river.
Jade Orchid
Jade Orchid - 15 years ago
And in some old school kayaks too! Gawd those things are L O N G! The new style whitewater kayaks take out a lot of the work. I can't even imagine the control it took. It just blows my mind. :O
Jade Orchid
Jade Orchid - 15 years ago
Omg this is freaking INTENSE! My heart was in my throat just watching it. I'm my hometown's only urban kayaker and I've taken tunnels, canals, spillways, and have gone down several local waterfalls but nothing like this. I'll never be this good... You guys are my heros! :D
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
Hah I agree my hero was little Roger Woodward.
Erik Hancock
Erik Hancock - 15 years ago
at like 49 seconds omfg talk about pool drop fun
Chiloe Spelius
Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago
well I recall it was in the early 80s perhaps 1980 at the earliest 1982 at the latest. I can check the newspaper articles and let you know exactly.
Wolves of Canada
Wolves of Canada - 15 years ago
holy crap that looks like fun.
Indy
Indy - 15 years ago
Just awesome, gotta love the 80's. This is reality TV, ha, They're coming out the other end one way or the other, the force of that water won't stop for a rescue team.
tuttt99
tuttt99 - 15 years ago
Not in my wildest dreams!
DjDynastyEDM
DjDynastyEDM - 15 years ago
EPIC!
clemofish
clemofish - 15 years ago
ahahahahahah 5:24
Risto Beatty
Risto Beatty - 16 years ago
the only river that has a 1-10 scale is the colorado other than that 1-5 and 6 is supposed to be unrrunnable
lemonmeringue pie
lemonmeringue pie - 16 years ago
excellent!
Geoff
Geoff - 16 years ago
00:43 Is Class 10 Rapids.
tainterlakeisgreen
tainterlakeisgreen - 16 years ago
lol
Geoff
Geoff - 16 years ago
00:43 is class 10 rapids.
guaranic
guaranic - 16 years ago
actually those waves look like fun
guaranic
guaranic - 16 years ago
meh... it's not that bad... there aren't reversals
hyperpsyched
hyperpsyched - 16 years ago
First "legal" descent. That's funny.
jimmimak
jimmimak - 16 years ago
love the 80's beards
tubeneophyte
tubeneophyte - 16 years ago
Looks like Perception Mirage (my first boat).
mondosupreme
mondosupreme - 16 years ago
or brains the size of walnuts...
cheroflip
cheroflip - 17 years ago
my heroes
ofidler
ofidler - 17 years ago
incredible. interesting to note the way they talk about the kayakers relationship to the river
Paul Hollobaugh
Paul Hollobaugh - 17 years ago
amazing. now someone needs to do it in an open boat. OC-1!!!! amazing skill though these 4 were amazing
Skipper
Skipper - 17 years ago
nice music.. hehe
Danny O'gorman
Danny O'gorman - 17 years ago
Respect to that Girl, and Guys. ..they must all have balls the size of dinner plates.

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