How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

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Most popular comments
for How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

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George Palmer - 8 years ago

how involved is the hipsnap in this roll?

Ricardo Feijo - 8 years ago

Probably the best kayak roll video!

rcmc59 - 9 years ago

Anybody know the make and model of boats Chris and the other used on the first Niagara Gorge run?

Chiloe Spelius - 9 years ago

+rcmc59 YES the first run was not televised and I used an Natural Progression Kayak that was made in Sun Valley Idaho at the time and Ken Lagergren used a TJ 1 made by Dick Held in Cedar City Utah. The first televised runs were made in Perception MIrage with Dagger Paddles.

feiz01 - 9 years ago

This is my go to roll,,Chris your a legend! Thanks :)

Barbara Stewart - 9 years ago

Thanks for the replies guys- but my point is Chris Spelius demonstrates a twist (the body) and SLICE (the paddle blade angle). The twist is not in question- it's the slice I'm curious about.

a) per Dutky and conventional wisdom, a slight climbing angle on the paddle keeps the paddle high and supports the body during the sweep roll BUT at a cost of some inevitable resistance.

b) per Chris Spelius (apparently, as above) slicing the paddle results in little to no resistance and hence a faster, sharper twist of the body- so your body (and paddle) might go deeper, but the faster body twist will also be more powerful.

c) conventionally, a C to C roll has been explosive hip flick (relatively) and a sweep roll has been a fractionally longer hip rotation- does the twist and slice (above) represent a more explosive sweep roll?

Chiloe Spelius - 9 years ago

+Barbara Stewart Barbara it is the crux of the difference between the Dutky type of sweep roll that does grab resistance through the climbing angle and requires a hip snap. This Twist and Slice type requires Rotation down to the pelvis and does not require a hip snap as conventionally defined. But if you do not rotate the magic does not work. If you do rotate bringing the back corner of the kayak up towards your back elbow it is quite effortless. There is a difference between the two rolls.......One of the reasons I have pushed to call them different names other than the roll or sweep roll. But that has been met with some resistance from the instruction community for whatever reason. I would not say more it is more explosive. The explosion is taken out of it because the boat is coming up the entire time during the slice. But it is quick and elegant. If you grab resistance..... which is quite instinctual if you have learned another type of roll, it just hurts the magic.

Barbara Stewart - 9 years ago

+Chris Spelius thanks for the reply Chris. I have faithfully been doing what I believed to be a sweep roll, per Dutky , for years, seeking out the sweet spot of my climbing angled blade, on which to then hip snap. I have come unstuck on this in whitewater, never quite getting that feeling of sufficient resistance under the blade. I am a middle-aged woman, late to the sport, so I do not have an enviable power to weight ratio. The twist and slice roll is a real gem; the single action, not reliant on paddle purchase, frees me from the when/now/never hip snap decision which plagued my white-water roll- and so has greatly improved my successful WW roll stats. Personally, I am taking this roll (I'm a coach) to as many people as I can, particularly to women- but I always get the "you must have a climbing paddle" chorus resisting changing their ideas. Many, many thanks, you have shown me a roll which has boosted my WW confidence, paddling and coaching.

Chiloe Spelius - 9 years ago

SORRY Barbara that I did not comment sooner. Yes this roll is asking you to let THE PADDLE SLICE OR keep a flat or zero degree BLADE ANGLE . Not a climbing angle. Of course the roll can work with a climbing angle but then it slows the rotation down and depends on more of hip snap or push down of the paddle. This roll as described really becomes magical when the paddle slices with no resistance. Earlier on in the evolution of recreational rolls the sweep roll was taught with: 1. a climbing blade angle 2. hip snap 3. Continue to sweep a bit to slight lean back. This roll and its teachers evolved towards rotation at the waist and slicing paddle. Thus dependent on body movement and less on on the paddle. There are many ways to roll a kayak. This technique is very interesting body motion based on rotating from the waist.

Dale Perry - 9 years ago

As Spelius says, this roll is commonly referred to as the "sweep roll". People mistakenly think the "sweep" refers to the paddle. It does not. With the "C to C" roll, the "C to C" refers to your body movement(and that's what actually rolls your boat). The "sweep" in the sweep roll refers to your body, NOT YOUR PADDLE. Your body rolls the boat. No paddle necessary, though once you've rolled up, it's nice to still have the paddle, therefore, we learn to roll while holding onto the paddle. When rolling, regardless of the type of roll you do, your body should do 90%+ of the rolling & your paddle should be lightly bracing. Concentrating on your paddle when rolling is almost always a mistake. You should concentrate on your "big paddle"... that is, "your body". In a proper sweep roll, your paddle should stay at the surface. As mentioned, your paddle should have a slight climbing angle, but your paddle should be less than 10% of the power of your roll. Done correctly, you won't feel any resistance on the paddle blade at all and it will feel as though someone else grabbed your boat and righted it for you. I usually teach people to hand roll first. I think this helps people to understand that the paddle is not necessary and helps keep them from trying to rely on the paddle to roll the boat. Thanks to Spelius for this series.

Barbara Stewart - 9 years ago

Hopefully someone knowledgeable is still out there willing to help me on this. I have 2 questions. 1. The blade angle is NOT climbing, as recommended in Paul Dutky's Bombproof roll, but either neutral or slightly down turned- is this correct? what is the recommended angle?

2. Chris is able to curl up enough to get the blade out of the water so the sweeping paddle hits the water at about 1 o'clock-2 o'clock with speed and so the momentum of the body un-twist is maintained and the paddle is giving support. My problem is that, curled up, my paddle is on the surface and that getting enough "welly" for the 12o'clock to 1 oclock part of the sweep is sometimes lacking- any suggestions?

Thanks

Martin - 9 years ago

Always slighlty climbing. It initiates the roll and significantly lifts you up. After many weeks of practice, you realise that the final push down the blade requires minimal effort. That would be also a sign that your hipflick works really well. BTW - roll above is the easiest. Really :)

Salvatore Pedi - 11 years ago

Thats called an "Eskimo Roll".....and thats was why I almost didn't get into kayaking some years ago. I simply didn't want to do an eskimo roll. But, that didn't stop me from going on many kayaking trips. I had decided that instead of doing an eskimo roll, that I'd simply "Capsize" from the kayak, then stay with the kayak and just hand paddle to the shore!. And, in all the years of my kayaking, I NEVER EVER capsized!. You can still go kayaking without learning to "eskimo roll"..

RiverSasquatch - 11 years ago

The problem with this video and explanation is showing newbies the blade angle on the way down during the flip, but when you set up, I can clearly see you adjust the paddle blade into an open position once upside down. Newbs won't see this! ... and you can't use the term "slice" and "zero resistance" because that is not at all true. You need to be able to feel resistance when opening the blade face or you can't keep the paddle towards the top of the water nor have any feel for the "sweet spot"

10. comment for How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

JacksonRothery - 11 years ago

He seems like a cunt

spelunkerd - 12 years ago

This technique is so intriguing! I'm surprised to see such little emphasis on the hip flick, even though it is there at the end. I guess it comes so naturally you don't need to focus on it. The first time I tried this I stayed submerged under the boat, forgetting that I need to be lateral and closer to the surface. Still trying, but I think I have it visualized now.

THX 1138 - 12 years ago

Been tryn to roll since 2007. Can't do it yet. Been to classes, watched DVD's. I would do anything to be able to roll. Sigh

avaga101 - 12 years ago

brilliant thank you for this was trying this in the pool yesterday and just could not understand what my coach was talking about- slow-mo is a definite help

mendutrafting arungjerammagelang - 12 years ago

wow exelent roll......

Thelesman22 - 12 years ago

@MegaPaddles done it many times in holes on big water. It works.

Spartacus2809 - 13 years ago

Hi Chris , i want to say to you "thankyou so much" . I`m quite new to kayaking and am currently on a !Star BCU course in the UK . I`ve watched the video`s you post on You Tube in relation to the various rolls . Last night (10/6/11) i had my first rolling lesson in the pool with my instructor . The upshot was that i nailed my first ever roll on my fifth attempt and then went on to do over 20 more successful rolls on my first session . Big thanks again . Keep up the good work . Neil .

Dale Bloomer - 13 years ago

After viewing many times and new to rolling it tried this techniquehowever when transfering the simplistic movement described my paddle descended far too deep rather than skimming just below the surface of the water. Not made one yet

Chucknorris - 13 years ago

try doing this roll in a hole or on a wave when the pressure of water is upon you, then you will see why it should not be taught, the movement is too rigid for my liking

Chiloe Spelius - 13 years ago

@MegaPaddles Who said how wrong your rolls are? We have made zero comments on your roll. You sound a little sensitive to me. If you do not understand the no hip snap part of this roll........... you are not feeling the magic of rotation in this roll. Most people do not understand it untill they feel it the first time. If you think it puts pressure on the shoulders you are not doing it right.

20. comment for How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

Chucknorris - 13 years ago

@chiloeleone i have been kayaking for 20 years and trust me i know what im talking about, im a playboater at heart and use many different rolls, in fact i do a good few hundred rolls every weekend i would love for you to come and keep up with me and tell me how wrong my rolls are but i will guarantee they are near perfect every time, this clip shows you how your going to get injuries very quickly by leaving your shoulders in a vulnerable position for dislocation

Ahad Abdurahmon - 13 years ago

overcomplicating a simple action, as if it is a rocket science.

Jakeyy_rT - 13 years ago

@cathalfolan yeah it is possible to

Brett19696 - 14 years ago

@piketyl000 dont let go of your paddle lol

GoneToHelenBach - 14 years ago

Fantastic tutorial. I'm new to kayaking and it was my mission to learn to roll as quickly as possible. Me and my bro have just been out for our fourth session in our kayaks and with the help of this tutorial we both successfully rolled for the first time. No swimming pools, no hands-on professional instruction, just a river, some knowledge gained from Chris Spelius' videos and a lot of determination. Please check out our video Fourth Time in Our Kayaks on my YouTube page. Thanks!

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

I do not understand the question. Pleaase explain in more detail.

SharpeyN - 14 years ago

@jstrings00 Here in the UK, we call the "skirt thing" a spray deck but in US, it is known as a spray skirt. It is possible to roll without it, but your boat will fill with water. I have found in the pool that it takes about 3 rolls without a spray deck to totally fill the boat.

Jacob Peterson - 14 years ago

This just looks like a standard set up moving to a back deck roll......

josh stringer - 14 years ago

what if i don't have a skirt thing for my kayak? will water get in and prevent me from flipping back over?

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

Neils2809, That is the perfect question about this roll. There is no hip flick as has been described in other videos and literature. The hips do move the kayak upright due to the diagonal rotation of the torso. Flicking the kayak using the thigh braces and the butt cheek is something that is done in other rolls. You have just pin pointed the magic of this roll.....it does not take that effort as you describe it lifting the knee. Just rotate to the back corner and voila!!!! you are up.

30. comment for How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

Thanks for the nice comments. It makes my day down here in Futaleufu on a rainy day.

sqwid - 14 years ago

I watched over 25 rolling videos and went for my first pool lesson today. I failed to roll every time! ROFL! That crap is SO hard! Next time! I will not give up!

Jon Nelson - 14 years ago

Good video -- still the best roll technique, i think. Done with a strong sweep, the paddler should be up when the paddle is perpendicular to the boat. And the body doesn't have to lean back toward the rear deck. I first did this roll by moving my rear (left) hand to the paddle blade for a extended paddle roll. When i got better at it, i dropped the change in hand position. It's important to get the body curled toward the surface to raise the center of gravity.

mokelumnekid - 14 years ago

Great video! I've been working on this roll. I also found the dvd/video called "The Kayak Roll: Learn Tune Teach" to be *extremely* helpful for a beginneer like me. Most dvd outlets will have it. It will save you a lot of time and thrashing around once in the pool.

jo site - 14 years ago

Excellent video - been trying to roll for some time now under guidance from friends who correctly explained the starting/end positions but didn't emphasize the importance of using your core rather than your arms to do the work. My rolls up to now were brute force; now I rotate my torso and it is truly effortless - many thanks.

Wut - 14 years ago

I taught myself this roll using just this video, and got it on my first try! (my second didn't go quite as well). Thanks for putting these out!

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

Remember if you think of the paddle as an extension of the movement of your torso, it becomes a unified movement and very fluid... Just make sure that torso is going through the entire movement correctly and with some energy. If you move your Torso diagonally across the kayak from one side to the other with rotation intersting things happen magically with your hip....causing you to right yourself.

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

Thanks for your comment!

123z3000 - 14 years ago

Tried it in the pool.....:) It works....:) Thank You for your Help

Chiloe Spelius - 14 years ago

You are perceptive. Look carefully the thing in common is that the paddle is moved by the moving Torso. HOWEVER watch the movement: the twist and slice the TORSO rotates which bring the hips and the boat in underneath ones Torso. The back deck the Torso LEANS back and swings to the rear. It is hard for me to believe how different the mechanics feel and how hard it is to see the difference visually. They are way different mechanics that are getting one up. Thanks for your comment

123z3000 - 14 years ago

Love your video, Using it to learn to roll. But haveing difficulties. Comapring the Twist and Slice with the back deck sweep roll. At the start both look very similar... until right at the end in the Twist & slice roll, the face is looking down the lenth of the paddle body twisted and in the back deck sweep roll, the face is looking up with the body facing forward.. Is that the key differance?

mokelumnekid - 15 years ago

A am a newbie but when this works- it is like 'magic' and when I mess up my rotator cuff takes a beating. Am learning to be very careful about that. I've only been able to dao about 6 rolls so far. Chris- thank you for posting this. Wish you had a school a little closer to Seattle, the air fare to Patagonia is a killer....

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Jimmy, The first thing I would say is to make a plan to stretch your ham strings.....loose hamstring really take the pressure off you back while sitting in a kayak. Find out what causes more problems with the back.....leaning back leaning forward rotation???? tell me motions are limted and what the problem with the back is. I can recommend which roll would be the least stressful in your situation.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Thanks, I tried to distill this down to just the absolute core properties of the roll. It is meant to indentify the roll someone does. The objectives of the video were to clean up the names of the roll around the world. However many have found they can learn from these videos. When I am teaching I use many more strategies to get someone to learn it, probably a 45 minute video. But this is the essence, I really appreciate your comment. Chris Spelius

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Great.

jumbonambo - 15 years ago

Thanks Cris, now i can do it. Have a nice day :-)

Rusty Cranium - 15 years ago

Nice video. I've just started kayaking and so far, this is the only roll I've completed successfully. Like Soleary, I find that cocking your wrists slightly helps it become much more fluid. Now I just have to practice as much as possible so I can get those body movements down to second nature.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Haze901.....thanks for that comment.......Believe me studying of videos and then comparing oneself with a video is a real stimulant for learning faster. Underutilized considering everyone has a little video camera now and can post online. Athletes in most sports use this in a big way. From Football to competitive swimming

North East Whitewater - 15 years ago

This is now my roll. I was using the sweep with a full paddle purchase and it was good but cocking my wrist about 5 degrees on the set up causes the bladed edge to go over the top of the water making the roll easier with a lot less effort. Great video. It took my about 1 year to master and i feel i can do it in any situation.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Thanks alot for the comment. If you body core goes through the movement and your paddle is just connected to the Core this baby will work. HOW THE body moves is the ticke.

50. comment for How to roll a kayak (Twist and Slice) Kayak Roll Identifier.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Thanks for the comments. I think that is a very good idea. I will add to the series when I can film on the Futaleufu in Chile. Chris

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Figure out what type of kayaking you are going to do. Lake paddling, slow rivers, whitewater and I suggest getting a boat used. Search the internet for this and you can save alot of money. These boats do not wear out. chris

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Well if you are going to learn to play or run challenging whitewater....you will tip over during the learning process. If you know how to roll it takes away all fear and your learning curve accelerates. Chris

tecnolover2642 - 15 years ago

The main difference I see is that with the back deck sweep roll your blade slice angle is a bit different as you are coming up with the head laying back on the back deck. With the sweep roll your head isn't laying on back deck and you finish unwinding the torso in an upright position.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

That is a great question. It is very hard to see the difference. They are different however. Twist and slice goes front left to back right but with rotation of the Torso and the slicing non resisting paddle blade. It also does not require a conscious hip snap. Sweep roll blade sweeping on the surface with an angle, hip snap half way and coming up in the back corner. visually hard to note difference. But the feel with in your own body greatly different.

ta338012 - 15 years ago

Great video -- the slow motion is especially helpful. I find the sweep roll is 10X easier than the C-to-C, it's less complex, and it's quicker.

Piotr Harbut - 15 years ago

Thanks, I nearly drowned without land practice but somehow managed it in a very awkward way... that was stupid considering I accidentally tipped over close to the cuty pier. Good thing I found this video.. lol... gonna try not to tip over again though..^^ lol

Darkkatana - 15 years ago

The rapids are a "Little more WILD" than a heated swimming pool.

superdonyoungy - 15 years ago

I keep hitting my paddle on the bottom, my rear hand seems to hit the boat and I am sweeping the forward blade downwards, which makes me push off the bottom. I've tried with a mask on to watch my technique but I am sure I'm missing something because I can't get the sweep out to the side. I've also had a shoulder op last year so I need this to be semi effortless, not the failed wrenching that's not working. Any tips?

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

ahh awesome,,,, let us know if you mum has kayaked the Futaleufu. I know of only one that has so far and that is my MOM!

Joshua Nutt - 15 years ago

i know : )

Maxandtheletter7 - 15 years ago

my mum rolls better than that

moh2o - 15 years ago

This is the roll I do, I learned from others when a beginner. then I watched Dan Crandall's video called the Kayak roll. He teaches the 'Sweep' roll. Now it is all I do. I never learned the 'C to C'. I can do the back deck roll, and sometimes a hand only roll, if I feel good. Excellent Demonstration, BTW.

David Jenkins - 15 years ago

thanks for the videos, after learning the c to c i managed to do the twist and slice on my first attempt.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

the pawlatta roll is thought of as a extended paddle sweep roll. Is that what you are doing? It is more forgiving as on has great leverage when they extend the paddle out. I think there are advantages to learning a roll that does not require a shifting of the paddle in your grip . But on the twist and slice you have to be really doing the body motion or it will not work. Really learn the movement out of the water first. If you do that I think you will be able to teach yourself.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Thanks for the feedback. I really believe in watching these little things over and over and visualize yourself doing it ....and it will happen.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Of course that depends what country you are in . In the USA you can pick up a good used kayak for 400 usd

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

The main thing is memorize the body movement on dry land with no pressure............Do what ever it takes to do the same in the water. DO NOT let your survival intuition take over. It is not harder on the river than anywhere else.......

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Thanks i appreciate it. WE are off to the hot springs with our entire staff this morning for a employee roll session here in Chile.

kay834 - 15 years ago

You are great!! Thank your posting these great video's. You are a great instructor as well very clear. Thanks

SharpeyN - 15 years ago

This video has helped me immensely! My roll is far better because of it. If I can improve on what has been said, skimming the paddle on the surface, draw a semi circle on the water surface with the tip of your blade from the front left of the boat to the right rear (or vice versa) of the boat keeping your eyes on the tip all of the way. Do not try to heave yourself out of the water using the paddle. Your body will automatically twist bringing the boat up. Many thanks for posting it.

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Iris, this is a key discovery on this roll if you can try it. It is not a hip snap like we know in some of the other rolls. ie an effort to get the boat upright before you start to come out of the water no it is the diagonal movement and rotation...... much like how a cat rights it self in the air if you drop it upside down. The cat cannot touch anything but through rotation it changes its orientation 180 degrees. The paddle is only a guide.....Iris in a sense this a roll without a hip snap.

HurtinAlburtan - 15 years ago

I completely agree, by rotating your torso and your hips in opposite directions you are using some force on the surface of the paddle, while some the motion comes from your core and yet more comes from your legs. However, in my experience I have always found that on a failed roll attempt I can trace it back to a lack of hip kick. (Either that or a submerged paddle due to incorrect angle of the blade)

Chiloe Spelius - 15 years ago

Now that is one of the most common comments about this roll if one has not felt the magic of it. If you think of hip snap (c to c ) type of movement as the only way to get the kayak up then this is hard to understand. But the entire body is being used....it is being used through rotation and the paddle just glides along, it is not the paddle that gets one up it is the torso rotating one way and the hips ROTATING the other way. This roll is difficult to understand, try it and feel the magic.

HurtinAlburtan - 15 years ago

this guy has no hip kick which means that his sweep is really good, but hes going all the work with the paddle, use your whole body!

grasseater108 - 15 years ago

True; a lot more helpful than the 'show offs' too.

aria230 - 15 years ago

i have just managed to do a half sweep roll. Is the full 1 harder?

Chiloe Spelius - 16 years ago

it looks like a slight variation but the principal of the slicing paddle and the rotation really is a different energy source for getting you up. Look slight different. Feel major league difference. Chris

hooneroids - 16 years ago

thanks very much ... im just starting to learn rolling and your videos are excellent, i think ill concentrate on the twist n slice and the c and c to start with .. once again thank you

Chiloe Spelius - 16 years ago

Well Backbonz reading your comment lets me know that you really are doing that roll. The magic of this roll does not happen unless you roll the wrists like you say, causing the paddle to slice. IT REALLY IS EFFORTLESS IN A WAY THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE TILL YOU FEEL IT. Sometimes I use that exact analogy of the motorcycle throttle and if other things are in place that is what closes the deal with the student. Thanks for your comment.

backbonz - 16 years ago

This is the roll i learned to do. The key for me, was rolling the leading wrist back like throttling a motorcycle. Total key for me. Chris mentions slicing the blade thru the water, but i never got that feeling till i learned to rill the wrists. Then, it is truly effortless. I have to revisit the details on occasion or i get sloppy.

moh2o - 16 years ago

it is all in How you do it. Keeping the elbows in and using the torso , one does not need to stress the shoulders. If you let the elbows go out and sweep with the arms,(instead of the torso) you WILL destroy your shoulders. Most people do not do it correctly.

moh2o - 16 years ago

Excellent! That is the roll I do. I try to keep my head down in the end, as described in the video "The Kayak Roll" by Phil and Mary DeReimer . Yes It is effortless. If done right. It is all in the set up and hip snap and twist.

Chiloe Spelius - 16 years ago

YOU ARE RIGHT< I teach all these rolls, in fact I teach more C to C than any of them and I would have to agree with you........the twist and slice roll is one continuous movement...no change of direction..thus it tends to be more fluid for most paddlers.....but they are all smooth if practiced enough by experts. They are all good and they work

Kuviasuktok - 16 years ago

I left a comment on your C2C clip and I was going to say that I think the sweep is more graceful than the C2C. And here you say the exact same thing. Given that you have to bring the paddle 90 degrees for the C2C anyway, why wouldn't you just complete the sweep and roll rather than stop momentarily to set up for the C2C? Very useful and well explained videos. Thanks.

Yvonne Le Guillou - 16 years ago

very welL, expressed and movie...

g05948 - 17 years ago

hiya im just gettin into the sport and was just wondering how to do a balance brace mabey u cud upload a video ov it 4 me thanks appreciated and where r u from

Chiloe Spelius - 17 years ago

Certain body positions above the water.....that relative to the kayak are exactly the same for initiating the roll under the water..... the kayakers body is unstable. We PRACTICE THIS on dry land where they can learn the exact motion without worry. Then in the water with an instructor by them to balance them. THEN THEY GO FOR IT UNDER THE WATER.

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